Jon Favreau - Andy Kroll

1)      Jon Favreau interviews journalist Andy Kroll about his book "A Death on W Street", which explores the Fox News-fueled conspiracy surrounding the murder of DNC staffer Seth Rich. Kroll explains that while Fox News does not originate conspiracy theories, it has become the center of the conservative media universe and serves as a megaphone and validator for online conspiracies. He reflects on the sad and tragic events surrounding Rich's death and how it was swept into the conspiratorial updraft of American politics at the time. Kroll discusses the circumstances of Seth's death and how it was conveniently glossed over by those who turned it into something conspiratorial and nefarious.

2)      Andy Kroll discusses the backstory of Seth Rich's murder, which was twisted into a conspiracy theory propagated by both the far left and the far right. Speculation about Rich's murder began on Reddit and other online forums, centered around the belief that his death was part of a cover-up by the Clintons. The conspiracy theory was bolstered by right-wing figures like Roger Stone, leading to the spread of fake news and misinformation. The book's author notes that the psychology behind conspiracy theories involves willing something into existence if they align with one's beliefs, leading to a dangerous cycle of misinformation.

3)      Jon Favreau discusses the prevalence of conspiracy theories surrounding the Clintons and how they have infiltrated the minds of people across the political spectrum. He highlights how individuals fed into the narrative that the Clintons have a "kill list," and the ways in which this mythology has manifested in recent events, such as the accusations surrounding Seth Rich's death. Favreau also touches on the longevity of these theories, citing a woman killed in a Starbucks in the 90s who became another name on the "Clintons' kill list," despite no concrete evidence linking her murder to the Clintons.

‍

‍

4)     Andy Kroll discusses the role of Fox News inspreading conspiracy theories. While Fox News does not originate these theories, once they gain enough traction online, they are often picked up by Fox News and amplified on their platform. He uses the example of the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, where a reporter for Fox News, along with two other Fox News commentators, set out to prove Rich was the source for the Wikileaks dump during the presidential election. Despite never being able to confirm anything, the story was published on Fox News and became viral worldwide. The speaker sees the Dominion conspiracy theory as a "preview" to what happened in the Seth Rich case.

5)     The internet has made it much easier for conspiracy theories to spread, and Fox has a unique ability to legitimize them through its airtime and online platforms. Politicians on both sides of the aisle appear on Fox, and traditional journalists treat them as a legitimate news organization, adding to the validator function of the network. Fox News knows its power and uses it to protect its position, as seen with their coopting of Breitbart's momentum and embracing of Donald Trump's viewership.

6)      Andy focuses on the impact of Fox News and its role in the Seth Rich conspiracy theory. It is noted that Fox holds great power in the media world, as being picked up by Fox can cause the story to spiral around the world many times over. He then starts discussing the motivation behind Fox’s actions, with ratings and money being a key driving force behind their decisions. The Rich family was pushed into suing Fox for intentional infliction of emotional distress, and it is noted that fighting such a lawsuit was a substantial challenge for them.

7)      Andy talks about the lawyers behind the Dominion and Seth Rich cases and their approach to using the law to combat online disinformation. Sussman Godfrey's lawyers are at the forefront of this approach, and they are thinking creatively about how to use damages in a way that goes beyond just a settlement amount to include the cost of repairing the reputation of those who were defamed. This can involve creating a media campaign that will counter the lies and conspiracies and even result in hosts like Sean Hannity retracting their statements and apologizing. While it remains to be seen what will be the most effective, the lawyers are experimenting with new strategies to counter the age of conspiracy.

‍

‍

8)      Jon discusses the Dominion case, which could unravel Fox News's false reporting tactics. Fox News has been airing false information, including the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, which has led to the Dominion lawsuit. Fox News may settle to avoid putting their hosts on the stand where they will be under oath and have to tell the truth, exposing their hidden motives. Furthermore, Mariah Bartiromo and other Fox News hosts may have aired these false claims independently, as the network, despite their size, seems to lack central control. Lastly, while writing his book, Favreau spent long hours scouring the dark corners of the internet, and he did not recommend the experience to anyone.

9)      Jon discusses the power and pull of conspiracy theories, and how the internet has super charged this phenomenon. While acknowledging that conspiracy thinking has been around for as long as human beings have had brains, the internet has turned conspiracy thinking into a world that you can inhabit, a closed Universe where every door leads to another conspiracy theory, allowing you to marinate in it so much more than before. It is an immersive experience where you can live in it without ever having to step out of it, and you read or watch about any conspiracy theory version about any issue you care about, all in the same place. They further discuss that what many people are finding in these places is a community, where they can find like-minded people welcoming strangers.

10)   Andy highlights how the loss of local institutions in communities has contributed to the rise of conspiracy theories and radicalization on social media platforms. Additionally, he touches on how the book has impacted the author's view on online culture and its potential to spread into the real world. The discussion ends on a positive note, recognizing those who have defended the truth and remain committed to fighting against conspiracy theories and disinformation.

‍