Jordan Peterson - Josh Hawley

1) Senator Josh Hawley discusses his motivation for writing his book, "The War for America's Soul", which was inspired by his responsibilities as a father of two boys. He was concerned about the struggles of men, especially young men who feel a sense of alienation, depression, and lack of purpose. Hawley offers a positive, affirmative vision of what men are for and why it's good to be a man. He also touches on the importance of paternal roles in encouraging and facilitating the independence of children, while the maternal role is to take care of the immediate needs, especially in early infancy.

2) Josh discusses the importance of responsibility and mentorship in finding deep meaning. Hawley emphasizes that conservatives need to move away from Hectoring and lecturing young people about what they should do towards a deeper understanding of the fact that, in assuming responsibility, individuals can find the deepest meaning. Mentorship is a core part of this process because of the pleasure and meaningfulness in developing people and aiding the best in them while making sacrifices for the medium to long-term future.

3) Josh talks about the importance of self-discipline, self-mastery, and self-sacrifice to experience true liberty and freedom. He emphasizes that in order to achieve this profound kind of liberty, we need to see our true interest in the long-term and become self-governors, which is a traditional idea that has been lost in the modern world. Hawley believes that young people, especially young men, need to learn to master themselves and that ordered liberty, like in games or sports, should scale up to be true for our lives as well.

4) Josh discusses the importance of recovering the foundational stories that define what it is to be a man and a woman, and what their roles and purpose are. He explains that men have a high calling to follow God's example from Genesis, to expand the Garden of Eden from the wilderness and bring order from chaos. These archetypal patterns and foundational stories are critical in recovering a sense of order, purpose, and meaning in our culture. The senator argues that it's essential to give voice to these stories in politics and to formulate policies that promote and support them.

5) Josh discusses the role of the biblical narrative in shaping Western culture and American history. Senator Hawley argues that the Bible has been the most influential text in shaping Western moral intuitions, including American democracy. He further explains that as a practicing Christian himself, he believes that the Bible's power and effectiveness come from the fact that it is fundamentally true and touches on something that is the truth with a capital T.

6) Peterson discusses the anti-slavery ethos of the Biblical tradition and how it is central to the entire Western project. He argues that even with the contamination of power, the Western culture is opposed to slavery, thanks to its Biblical roots. He adds that all societies in the world that are free and productive and those that people would flee to if they had the choice are offshoots of the Biblical tradition, and literacy was brought to the world through the same tradition and with the invention of printing press.

7) Josh discusses the powerful and profound impact of the Biblical tradition on cutting against the natural human tendency to organize culture around the elite who hold power and those who are essentially slaves. He notes that the French Revolution was a Tower of Babel type rebellion, and its atheistic approach sought to root out biblical influence and replace it with human reason, which ultimately leads to the rule of the powerful. The senator highlights the fundamental differences between biblical tradition and other ancient mythologies with their hierarchy of gods and the replication of that hierarchy among humans, emphasizing that the Bible asserts the fundamental equality of all people as created in the image of God.

8) Josh discusses the religious presuppositions that underlie scientific inquiry. Peterson argues that true scientists operate according to religious presuppositions, which are axioms that must be accepted at the start of the pursuit of knowledge. These presuppositions include the belief that there is an order in reality that is comprehensible to the human spirit, that understanding this order would be universally beneficial, and that scientists must conduct themselves in an ethical manner.

9) Josh and Jordan discuss the importance of an ethos in the application of technology. Hawley mentions the importance of trust, honesty, and cooperation in building an ethos that can lead to productivity and abundance in society, rather than focusing on technological mastery. Peterson adds that it is essential to consider the limitations and ethical implications that come with technology and recognizes the significance of an ethos in guiding the use of technology for the well-being of the community. They both challenge the idea of social and scientific Darwinism that rationalizes the domination of the weak and remind the audience of the need for ethical considerations in technology.

10) Senator Josh Hawley and Dr. Jordan Peterson discuss the limitations of science in creating moral codes. They critique the arrogance of the Enlightenment tradition and its dismissal of religion. Both Hawley and Peterson argue that science could not successfully establish a moral code that considers praiseworthy. Informing their belief is the fact that the twentieth century, which saw great scientific advancements, failed to bring better conditions for humanity. Science, when conducted correctly, exemplifies continual humility through its exercise, staying grounded in ignorance instead of premature closure. Furthermore, they posit that science derives from the biblical tradition, which presupposes that the world is orderly and that we can discover some of its order, making it beneficial for humanity.

11) Josh discusses the implications of technology on parasitical and predatory psychopathic narcissists. He believes that technology has removed all the restraints from this type of people, and their behavior is facilitated rather than inhibited online. Hawley thinks the dis-inhibition of such individuals with technology is a dangerous idea because such people pose a permanent existential threat. He identifies pornography as a major issue and claims that massive porn consumption inhibits dating, healthy self-image for men, confidence, and ultimately renders them impotent. The data on porn consumption shows that men who consume more porn become weak, passive and less confident, contrary to the claims of the porn industry that it's a sign of machismo.

12) Hawley discusses the modern culture's celebration of the self as God and the corrosive effect this has on young people trying to form their identity. Hawley argues that many on the left have no answer to the question of how to choose one's goals beyond gratifying one's momentary desires. He criticizes elements on the right for presenting a form of capitalistic consumerism where the alternative presented is to consume more stuff. Hawley suggests that both classical economics and some aspects of the left's "woke" ethos are a form of Mindless consumerism that feeds narcissistic self-aggrandizement.

13) Hawley discusses the issues with neoliberalism and woke capitalism. He argues that free markets without regard to human relationships, family, and morality lead to toxic elitism where the elites profit the most from global markets, and everyone else is left to accept the outcome. He believes that a nation is not a corporation, and it is held together by mutual bonds of belonging, shared purpose, and moral vision that needs to be preserved and cultivated. He also mentions the importance of inculcating a set of virtues in men for a nation to survive.

14) Josh discusses the importance of men being disciplined and virtuous, as it is essential for their own well-being, as well as for women and the nation. He highlights the roles of husband, father, warrior, builder, priest, and king and the need for men to integrate all of these roles to find a sustaining meaning in their lives. He emphasizes the significance of men adopting meaningful responsibilities and sacrificing for them to overcome depression, anxiety, and nihilism. Hawley also shares personal stories of losing his wife, his first baby, and his best friend to underline the importance of having a vision that would sustain young men in hard times.

15) Josh discusses the importance of having a sense of purpose and vision in life, especially when faced with crises. He notes that the biblical concept of transforming the world and bringing order from chaos provides a powerful vision to get one out of bed in the morning. However, he also highlights the denial of purpose and responsibility to men in modern culture by the nihilistic left, which can result in a failed state or tyranny. Hawley emphasizes that a reality beyond the historical must be considered, and that the absence of virtue leads to the loss of freedom and societal reproduction.

16) Josh discusses how the biblical tradition can be understood as a long meditation on what spirit to invite into your life to guide you and those around you through catastrophe. They argue that what's most real might be what sustains you through the worst of times and that taking up responsibilities such as husband, father, warrior, builder, priest, king can develop the character needed to prevail when storms rise. They also agree that the problem of evil is a perennial philosophical question and that hardship does not necessarily mean there is no God.