Jordan Peterson - Mike Lee

1) Senator Mike Lee discusses his concerns with the current situation regarding Russia and Ukraine. He describes how the US is spending large amounts of money and providing sophisticated weaponry to the Ukrainian military, without a clear vision for victory or peace. Lee argues that the lack of a realistic plan for victory or peace could lead to a significant regional or even world war. He believes that the American people are not being told the whole story and risks are not being adequately advised on. Lee also expresses his skepticism about the shallow moralizing and flag-waving regarding Ukraine's democracy and corruption, arguing that the situation is not so simple.

2) Mike discusses the dangers of weakening Russia, as Russia has natural resources that the West needs, such as natural gas and high-quality wheat production. Devastating Russia could have negative impacts on the West and the planet in the long-term, and deposing Putin could lead to a worse leader emerging. There is no coherent plan for victory, and involvement in Ukraine may not be beneficial for the American people. Furthermore, the alliance between China and Russia may not be a natural one, and it is not in the West's best interests to support China. The cost of war is also a factor, and the US has so far poured 113 billion dollars into Ukraine.

3) Mike discusses the concerns surrounding the US involvement in the Ukraine war. He highlights the enormous amount of money that has been spent on this war, which is roughly 20-25 times what Ukraine typically spends on defense in a year and nearly double what Russia spends in a typical two-year period. Lee expresses his concern that the US is getting involved in what could be perceived as a proxy war without a clear understanding of what their objectives are, especially when dealing with a nuclear-armed adversary like Russia. He also points out the corrupt nature of Ukraine and the lack of oversight on the spending of the 113 billion dollars that the US has poured into their economy.

4) Mike discusses the allocation of funds to Ukraine and the concerns surrounding it. While Congress did appropriate the money, Lee believes that it puts the US in a de facto position of war and that there needs to be more debate around it. There are also concerns about waste, fraud,and abuse of the funds, and the fact that it's not entirely clear where the money is going. Lee acknowledges that some of the money is going towards providing relief for the Ukrainian people, while others are going towards acquiring weapons for the US military to send to Ukraine.

5) Mike discusses the objectives of NATO and the viewpoint that suggests Putin's expansionist ambition could lead to taking over Ukraine and spilling over into NATO countries. The Senator highlights the concern that involving the US and funding a proxy war could provoke Russia to become even more expansionist, thus undermining the security of the NATO allies. Additionally, Putin is popular among Russians as he has been presenting the war against Ukraine as the defense of the traditional values of Russia and the West, which Eastern Europeans also resonate with.

6) Mike expresses his concerns about the lack of sound arguments and negotiations regarding the Russia-Ukraine conflict, stating that the debate is being handled at a very juvenile level. He emphasizes the importance of having an end goal in mind and raises questions about what victory would look like for both sides, worrying about the potential for everyone to lose a lot. Lee also shares that there were peace negotiations on the table last March that were scuttled primarily by the Biden Administration,which he finds disturbing.

7) Mike discusses the lack of negotiations for peace in the on going Russia-Ukraine conflict. He mentions that there was some speculation in Washington that a negotiated peace could have involved formal recognition of the Russian occupation of Crimea and a partial partitioning of parts of the Russia-speaking areas of the Donbas region. However, there have been no talks of such outcomes for many months. Lee also emphasizes that picking a fight with a huge bear without a strategy for achieving peace or resolution would be a fool's errand. He adds that without a peaceful resolution, the conflict might escalate into a significant regional war or evena world war.

8) Mike expresses his concerns about the US involvement in Ukraine and the biased narrative being presented to the American people. He believes that individuals and the press are not reporting on the risks and the reality of the situation, as well as continuing to perpetuate a "villain victim hero" paradigm for their own gain. Lee also mentions that the US has its own problems to deal with, such as over 110,000 Americans dying from fentanyl poisoning just last year.

9) Mike discusses the potential dangers posed by the escalation of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, particularly in terms ofthe concentration of power in the government and the resulting growth in government bureaucracy and overreach. The Senator notes that wartime funding tends to cause the government to become larger and taxes to be more intrusive, and that this can lead to a backdoor, invisible tax through currency inflation.

10) Mike discusses the issue of Ukraine and the potential for a peaceful resolution of the conflict. He talks about the linguistic differences between Ukrainian and Russian speakers, and how this has been a source of tension. Senator Lee suggests that a true plebiscite or referendum could be part of the negotiating strategy, allowing people in the disputed territories to exercise their right to self-determination. He notes that there was speculation earlier in the year about this possibility, but that ithas since died down, with Ukraine becoming increasingly aggressive. Senator Lee also cautions against being too bold, as this could ultimately work to everyone's disadvantage.

11) Jordan Peterson discusses The Ten Commandments' role as implicit and explicit priority axioms in the governance of free western states. Though skeptics may view them as arcane, he highlights their value as fundamental moral rules, such as "do not murder" or "do not envy what your neighbor has." Peterson explores the commandment "do not take the Lord's name in vain" and notes how it means not using holy motivations for nefarious purposes. He then connects these concepts with a battle of unearned moral virtue and the acquisition of reputation value, which is of supreme importance to businesses. Psychology professor Peterson also critiques the western world's virtue signaling as it diverts attention from more significant issues, such as the fentanyl crisis.

12) Mike criticizes the tendency to simplify complex problems into a single threat, such as carbon emissions, and the resulting virtue signaling policies that harm the environment and make energy more expensive and unreliable. He also brings up the dangers of the ESG front, a moral imperative for capitalists to subsume their enterprise into a broader stakeholder vision, which is essentially a vision of state media and corporate collusion. The Senator discusses the regulation put forth by the Biden administration on ESG policies for 401K accounts and retirement accounts and the resolution of disapproval passed by both houses that the President is expected to veto.

13) Mike talks about how the ESG (environmental, social, and governance) pushers are subordinating fiduciary interests to the demands of the climate apocalypse and leftist narratives. The responsibility of investment funds is to grow and preserve investments, and that shouldn't be subordinated to any other interest. However, ESG pushers believe that if they invest responsibly, they're actually going to see greater returns, which has no empirical evidence. Vanguard's CEO has already said that there's no evidence that ESG investment outperforms non-ESG investment.

14) Mike discusses the potential dangers of the ESG (Environmental, Social, and Corporate Governance) framework. While companies that abide by the ESG mandates may be prioritized for loans, he warns that individuals may also be held to these mandates in the future. The possibility of using digital currencies to monitor individual's spending and assess their compliance with environmental goals is already being discussed. This could ultimately result in taxation and rations for individuals who do not comply.

15) Mike discusses the potential consequences of companies engaging in agreements not to compete, including facing potential criminal penalties under antitrust laws, lawsuits from shareholders whose value has been diminished, and possible government mandates through reporting requirements. Lee predicts that ESG will be a big topic of discussion between Governor DeSantis, President Trump, and other Republicans running for president over the next two years, with all of them presenting it to the American people as a danger to their fate being decided by a few big corporate Titans on Wall Street and a small handful of executive branch bureaucrats.

16) Mike and Jordan discuss the dangers of a centralized federal government that seeks to control every aspect of citizen's lives, including their access to resources, jobs, and opportunities. The Senator emphasizes the importance of individual responsibility and the adoption of responsibility as a way to sustain meaning in one's life. Peterson mentions Arthur Brooks and his work on finding joy and happiness in one's profession, pointing out that such joy can be found in jobs that are sufficiently complex and present opportunities for upward mobility based on effort and work put in. Both Peterson and Lee agree that devolving power to the highest echelons of the government is detrimental to society's psychological significance and meaning.

17) Mike discusses the drawbacks of socialism as a means of government, arguing that it treats individuals as objects to be acted upon rather than agents who shape their own lives. He cites examples of starvation and lack of prosperity resulting from socialist regimes, asserting that the government's role should not be that of a keeper of people. Instead, he believes that the government should allow citizens to act freely and pursue their goals, which he argues is necessary for true happiness. Senator Lee remains optimistic about persuading his colleagues and the public to embrace this idea, breaking the conservative approach into smaller pieces and working it into different legislation.

18) Mike discusses how executive branch agencies have been making laws that carry criminal penalties and are enforceable against the American people. This situation is a form of despotism, as the task of lawmaking has been outsourced to people who cannot be fired. Lee believes that the American people have been sold short on this and that they will demand change once they realize what has happened over the last eight and a half decades. Additionally, the excesss pending and emergency procurement related to the Russia-Ukraine conflict and environmental degradation are producing greater concentration of power in the hands of fewer people at the corporate government level, which is a recipe for tyranny and slavery.