Lex Fridman - Paul Rosolie

1) Paul Rosolie, a snake catcher, discusses his experiences in the Amazon jungle and how it is like sitting among millions of heartbeats every night. He talks about the beauty and majesty of the jungle, and how Steve Irwin is a role model for his endless curiosity and love forwildlife. Rosolie also describes the Amazon as a "churning DeathMarch," where life is a temporary moment of stasis, and there is aconstant battle of creatures eating each other. Despite this, he still finds the jungle overwhelming and incredible.

2) Paul discusses his view of nature and the Amazon as a religion. He explains that the natural processes of the Amazon, including the murder of organisms, make up a "freak show" that reminds people how temporary they are. Rosolie describes his feeling of being a part of nature during his expeditions and how he feels at home when reminded of the natural facts of the world.

3) Rosolie discusses the inspiration he draws from the stories of individuals who have overcome incredible suffering, such as Shackleton. He also speaks about his experiences in the Amazon, including getting lost for days and feeling like he was going to die. Rosolie even found himself in a situation where he thought he may become a story similar to that of Into The Wild.

4) Paul discusses the harsh reality of working in the jungle, recounting their own experiences. They also delve into the works of Werner Herzog, including his documentary, "Burden of Dreams," which depicts the madness of filmmaking in the jungle. They touch on Herzog's appreciation for the darkness and the "brilliantly dark and comedic" monologues in his films. He then talks about Jane Goodall's impact on the study of animal behavior, with Rosolie noting that her work showed that animals are not emotionless automatons.

5) Paul discusses his view on animals and their emotions, stating that he believes certain mammals, such as elephants, do have human-like emotions. He also mentions his encounters with smaller creatures and how he's unsure if they possess the same range of emotions. Rosolie then recounts a moment in the jungle where he met a dove that communicated with him, and how he thinks different creatures, even insects, have their own distinct personalities.

6) The location of the Amazon jungle and its significance are discussed. Peru is one of the countries that contain the Western Amazon, along with Ecuador, and this region has a high diversity of life due to the combination of the Andes Mountains and the cloud forests. The Madre de dios area in Peru is where the author encountered the Saahá tribe and their leader, Santiago Duran, who worked to unite different tribes and protect the forest from destruction. The author became interested in helping the Amazon region after this encounter, and he later went on a search for anacondas, which are the largest snakes on Earth and have unique life cycles that impact theecosystem.

7) Paul recounts his experience of encountering a massive 25-foot anaconda in the Amazon jungle. He and his friend were on a hunting trip when they stumbled upon a floating forest and saw the anaconda lying lifelessly with another 16-foot anaconda wrapped around it. Rosolie realized that if people could witness such a sight, it could raise awareness and protect the Amazon. He tried to catch the anaconda by jumping on its back but eventually let it go. He explains that anacondas are not dangerous tohumans and tend to avoid confrontation. Despite having caught over 80 anacondas, none have bitten him.

8) Paul explains that many snakes, including mambas, are not actually aggressive but merely reacting out of fear or defense. In reality, they are peaceful creatures that prefer to be left alone in their natural habitat. He discusses how he caught a king cobra that had gotten into someone's kitchen in India and how they offered it water to drink. Rosolie sees snakes as an excellent way to teach people about wildlife and nature because people have a natural fear of the creatures, and interacting calmly with them can bring a sense of wonder and respect for nature.

9) Paul recounts his scary experience of catching an anaconda for research purposes. He explains how the coil of the snake went over his wrists, and then over his neck, resulting in his arms being tied, and the snake becoming the big spoon. Rosolie also notes that anacondas absorb Mercury from the riparian ecosystem, and since these apex predators eat everything in that ecosystem, including fish and birds, they can help researchers learn how Mercury moves through the system.

10) Paul discusses the issue of unregulated gold mining in the Amazon rainforest, which is leading to the destruction of the ecosystem and endangering the lives of many. He shares his experience of trying to film in an area where gold miners with machine guns prevented access and talks about the dangers of speaking out about this issue on social media. He stresses the importance of providing opportunities for loggers and extractors to work as protectors and gain health insurance and security in exchange for their intimate knowledge of the jungle to protect the area.

11) Paul Rosolie discusses his interactions with loggers in the Amazon and how his relationship with them changed over time. He highlights that while they have been vilified by many conservationists, they are simply people who need to make a living and often love the jungle. Rosolie also talks about the controversies surrounding his expedition, including the Discovery Channel's "Eaten Alive" stunt and the criticism it received. He notes that the stunt was an attempt to raise awareness about the destruction of the Amazon and its wildlife, which is a complex issue withno easy solutions.

12) Paul talks about his experience filming for the TV show "Eaten Alive", where he agreed to be eaten by an anaconda for a large sum of money. Despite the fact that the plan was unrealistic, he was game for it, as he needed the money. However, he and his team were misled by the producers of the show, who changed their voices and altered the film's message. The finished product misrepresented his intentions, and he was criticized by both the scientific community and the American public.

13) Paul reflects on his time working with Discovery and how his experience with a group of people he didn't know taught him about trusting others. While he acknowledges the mistakes that were made during his time there, he also takes personal responsibility for his own actions. Rosolie goes on to discuss the importance of authenticity in his work and how he believes that the greatest currency is being true to oneself.

14) Paul recounts how he witnessed the Amazon rainforest's burning, lost control, and documented the event with his phone. He was driven to action by the destruction he saw and wanted to show people the harsh reality of it. He explains how the footage went viral and eventually attracted attention from the entrepreneur, Dax da Silva, who funded a ranger program to save the forest from being destroyed. Additionally, he highlights the crucial role of communication, especially social media, in raising awareness of environmental issues like forest destruction and rhino and elephant poaching.

15) Paul describes his experiences being challenged to do solo hikes into the wild jungle with limited supplies. He recounts a story of a Jaguar coming up to him while he was sleeping in his hammock, just inches from his face, and how this experience energized him to survive and find his way out of the jungle. He also talks about the danger of falling trees, having to rely on nuts and fishing for food, and how starting a fire in the Amazon is futile.

16) Paul describes some of the techniques he uses to start a fire in the jungle and talks about the difficulties of staying dry in the rainforest, as being constantly wet can lead to infections. He shares a personal anecdote of getting infected with MRSA and almost dying in the jungle, taking care of an orphaned giant anteater. He had to leave the animal and navigate down a river on a boat full of dead animals to get medical treatment. In this bleak moment, Paul recalls writing a goodbye letter to his parents as it felt like the end.

17) Paul discusses his experience taking care of a giant anteater and how it forced him to explore the jungle from the perspective of an animal, allowing him to see the difference between an animal's public and private persona. He also explains his time spent with a herd of elephants in India, where he witnessed their intelligence and communication skills, including an encounter where a matriarch elephant identified a human pregnancy, and another where a tuskless male elephant named Dharma threw a tantrum to get bananas during a tiger sighting.

18) Paul talks about his fascination with elephants and their intelligence, which he believes goes beyond what humans measure with human-created tools. Elephants have become a concern for Rosolie, especially with the African elephant population down to just two percent of what it was a few hundred years ago. Rosolie talks about how tusks in elephants are fundamental to their interaction and the issues of elephants being born tuskless because of poaching.

19) While acknowledging the worst aspects of human behavior that has led to the destruction of nature, Paul expresses his love for being human and the ability to share ideas, travel, and use technology. He talks about how humans have the ability to engineer their environment, solve puzzles, create tools, and fly, making it one of the most impactful inventions. However, he admits that his longing to explore is limited to Earth's rivers, streams, oceans, and jungles, but he celebrates thehuman spirit that pushes people to explore beyond their comfort zone.

20) Paul discusses the dangerous animals in the Amazon and states that humans are the most dangerous, citing examples of violent uncontacted tribes. Rosolie notes that these tribes are isolated, living without modern technologies and that there is ongoing debate whether contacting them is a good idea. He explains that the trauma of the rubber boom catapulted these tribes into the forest and made them terrified of the outside world, causing hyper-violence towards anyone who enters their land. The rubber barons whipped, burned, enslaved, raped, and pillaged the tribes, making it one of the worst periods in human suffering.

21) Paul describes a situation where he left a fish outside his tent, and in the middle of the night, he woke up to 27 black caimans looking at him, with some of their heads as big as his torso. Their eyes glow in the night, so he could see them despite the darkness. He had to scoot back and let them have their fish, and there was a host of crocodiles outside his tent as well. He believes that the jungle is not dangerous; the humans are the most dangerous. He caught a Croc that was too big with no problem, but he ended up getting bitten when he tried to catch a bigger one with his hands.

22) Paul recounts his encounter with a group of uncontacted tribes during his expedition through the Amazon jungle. He explains how he saw some smoke from a distance and discovered that there were people on the other side of the river. He could sense their hostility as they aimed an arrow in his direction. Although he was unarmed and unprotected, he couldn't turn back and decided to run for three hours until he reached the river, where his food got wet. He then fled using a pack raft, which he had to inflate by himself, and used it to navigate the waters until he crossed the mountains and reached the next tributary.

23) Paul recounts his harrowing experience of getting lost in the Amazon jungle without food and facing dangers like anacondas and uncontacted tribes while floating down the river in a pack raft. He also expresses his respect for the people living in the Amazon and their remarkable skills for hunting, survival, and traditional medicine. He describes the mystery of the Amazonian life, which is largely unexplored and full of creatures with no names. He shares how he climbed trees like a rock climber to observe the life in the canopy, including snakes, bromeliads, orchids, and even cacti.

24) Rosolie discusses his experience with bullet ants and their painful bites, which he has endured seven or eight times. He explains that the venom induces a full-body, full-mind experience, which can make one feel alarmed and ill. Rosolie then addresses the idea of advanced and ancient civilizations in the Amazon and shares that, while there is evidence of complex civilizations in the region's history, he disagrees with the narrative that the Amazon is a man-made garden. He points out that the ecosystem of the Amazon is a product of millions of years of evolution and natural processes.

25) Lex and Paul discuss the idea of humans engineering natural environments, specifically the Amazon. Despite advancements in technology, the complexity of biological systems is not easily replicated. Paul expresses concern that labeling the Amazon as man-made could lead to the dismissal of its importance in preservation efforts. They then ponder the timeline for signs of human existence to disappear if all humans were to cease to exist, considering the rapidity of nature in reclaiming abandoned structures and technology.

26) It's an idea that intrigues him, and he hopes that humans can interact with life on Mars or one of Saturn or Jupiter's moons in his lifetime. He believes that billions of planets in our galaxy have some sort of life, even bacteria, and that there are probably thousands of intelligent civilizations that exist or have existed. However, it's challenging to contact them due to the distance and the vast amount of time required.

27) Paul and Lex discuss their thoughts on the beauty of a diverse universe full of life versus one solely occupied by humans. They both express a fascination with the possibility of alien life and how it could change our understanding of reality, but agree that life on Earth, especially in the form of wilderness and wildlife, is already astounding. They also acknowledge that many people don't think outside of the human perspective and don't realize how much other species and ecological systems contribute to their daily lives. Rosolie emphasizes the wonder and biological complexity of all living organisms, including anacondas and the human mind.

28) The idea of faking consciousness is raised and the possibility of people developing deep connections with robotic beings is discussed. The conversation then shifts towards climate change and the changes that have been observed over the years. While there is no denying that changes are happening, the speaker acknowledges that he is not qualified to comment on the extent of the damage and what our response should be as a society.

29) Paul discusses his opinion on the climate change debate, admitting that he cannot provide definitive evidence about the extent of our impact, but can speak to the shrinking of rainforests and loss of biodiversity that he has witnessed firsthand. He emphasizes his belief in protecting as many wild heartbeats as possible and focusing on local efforts to solve environmental problems. Rosolie appreciates Jordan Peterson's message and praises his use of language and theology but cringes when he dismisses the existence of an ecological emergency.

30) Paul talks about the importance of being deeply aware of nature and experiencing it to gain another perspective on the evolutionary history of humans. He believes that humans are ecological orphans and often forget that they share the planet with other beings. To help people reconnect with nature and witness what the Earth has created, he takes them on expeditions in the Amazon, showing them the giant trees and the sacred places deep in the forest.

31) Paul talks about the equipment he uses to capture footage in the Amazon jungle. He mentions that their team uses waterproof equipment and tethers for their phones and cameras and keeps their equipment in a backpack with a zipper to maintain equilibrium. He also discusses how advances in technology have allowed for incredible footage to be captured with just a cell phone, such as a video of a rhino approaching a phone or 3,000 butterflies on the beach. Rosolie emphasizes the importance of sharing these experiences with others and finding ways to capture the mind-blowing beauty of the jungle.

32) Paul and Lex discuss hunting and poaching. Rosolie expresses his strong hatred of poachers who exploit wildlife for profit, such as those who machine gun elephants for their tusks or kill rhinos for their horns. He makes a distinction between poachers and hunters, stating that he is a hunter himself and works with an organization that protects wildlife from poachers in Africa.

33) Paul expresses his curiosity to explore the mind and its limits, but he believes in pushing his limits in very specific situations, such as exploring his curiosity for hills that he believes in. Heand Lex Fridman discuss the meaning of life and how it takes them away from the human world. Rosolie often feels in a constant state of awe, and he hopes that the Universe created humans to see what is possible, and that beauty and good are achievable. They discuss how every life form has its meaning, and there might be meanings that they cannot understand. Rosolie is grateful for the simplest and most beautiful things in life, and he hopes to see Fridman in the jungle someday.