Raj Shamani - Vikram Sampath

1) Historian Vikram Sampath discusses the unintended consequences of filmmakers adding fiction and romance to historical figures. He explains that while these additions may make the characters more accessible and human, they can also perpetuate incorrect perceptions of these figures, such as the focus on Bajirao's love affair in popular culture rather than his contributions as a warrior. Sampath emphasizes the importance of adhering to historical facts and urges filmmakers to take more care in portraying historical figures accurately, as movies have the power to create lasting impressions on people's minds. He suggests that all elements of a character should be considered, and proper research and evidence should be used to back up the portrayal.

2) Vikram discusses the impact of movies on our understanding of history. He argues that while foreign films like Attenborough's interpretation of Gandhi's life have created a global brand and understanding of the father of India, Indian movies on Gandhi have not been so successful. Moreover, movies can only show one side of a character or focus on a particular aspect of their life. Sampath believes that schools need to completely change the way history is taught and structured to give every part of India's rich history a place in textbooks.

3) Vikram discusses the flaws of Indian history education. He highlights that Indian history education often neglects the achievements and contributions of the regional dynasties of South India, which can contribute to a limited understanding of India's vast history for students. He also pointed out that the long list of battles showcased in history education predominantly features the losses endured, diminishing the fact that India has a history of courage and resistance, culminating in the need for a new approach that includes a more holistic, grand narrative of Indian history that encompasses all aspects of Indian society and its contributions to world knowledge.

4) Vikram discusses the importance of accurately teaching history to create a better future and highlights the need for a more inclusive and honest version of Indian history. While the government has talked about changing the history curriculum, there hasn't been much action taken to do so. Sampath suggests that it's up to civil society to lobby for a more accurate version of history and to create a movement for change.

5) Vikram talks about why Indian history education has focused mostly on the Mughal Empire and its rulers. He believes that after India gained independence, the Marxist and Islamic bias of many educational leaders led to a whitewashing of Indian history, particularly the uncomfortable parts such as the Islamic conquest and rule of India, which included genocides, the destruction of thousands of temples and shrines, and the taking of women as sex slaves. Sampath believes that dehyphenating communities from these barbaric leaders is necessary and that young Muslim men and women are not responsible for the actions of these invaders. The glorification of these leaders, including Aurangzeb, by political parties and people should not be allowed, and community leaders should acknowledge the victimization of their own people by these atrocities.

6) Vikram discusses the qualities needed for a good Prime Minister and notes that Yogi Adityanath, the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, could be an interesting candidate. He praises Adityanath's ability to turn Uttar Pradesh around and control the state's previous lawlessness. Sampath also talks about the importance of healthy competition among states, likening it to how corporations operate. He mentions the Swachh Bharat Mission and the pride people have taken in cleanliness throughout India, particularly in Indore, Sampath's hometown. He notes that despite political opposition, Modi's policies have led to people's movements, as evidenced by Swachh Bharat.

7) Vikram discusses the success of various schemes under the Swachh Bharat Abhiyan in India and how it has helped the ruling party grow electorally. He also explains how having a healthy opposition is important in a thriving democracy and how it keeps the ruling party under check. Finally, he talks about his research on Veer Savarkar and the different perspectives surrounding his work.

8) Vikram discusses the history of Veer Savarkar and why he is a controversial figure in Indian politics. He explains that during his growing up years, Savarkar was not mentioned in textbooks, but during the first NDA government, he burst into national consciousness when his photograph was put up in the Central Hall of Parliament. However, after the UPA government took over, his plaque in his honor was removed and thrown away, and he has become a controversial figure between competing political parties and ideologies. Despite this, there has been an alarming lack of scholarship about him, and Sampath has written two volumes of his biography in an attempt to access unexplored materials.

9) Vikram reveals the story of Indian revolutionary Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, who worked tirelessly towards the complete freedom of India in the early 1900s. Savarkar collaborated with secret societies, including the Anushilan Samiti and Swadhin Bharat Juganthar, and got bomb manuals translated to Hindi and worked towards creating an Insurrection in the British Indian army similar to the one that happened in 1857. He was instrumental in designing the first flag of Indian independence and writing a book on the 1857 Revolution called the first war of Indian independence, which became a guidebook for revolutionaries.

10) Vikram Sampath recounts the story of Veer Savarkar, who survived harsh punishment under British colonial rule to become a social reformer and the president of the Hindu Maha Sabha. Savarkar promoted intercaste marriage and designed the first temple in India where people of all castes could worship. He also created a Café where everyone could sit together and eat, a revolutionary idea at the time, and had an Untouchable as a priest. Savarkar's fundamental difference from Gandhi was his belief in a violent armed revolution to establish Ram Rajya, which he argued was alien to Hindu culture and ethos.

11) Vikram discusses the consequences of Mohandas Gandhi's policies, specifically his policy of appeasement, which manifested into the country's division on communal lines and the eventual partition. Sampath points out that those who take credit for liberating the country must also take liability for all the negatives, such as millions being displaced and killed. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the roots of separatism, particularly Muslim separatism, and how the Congress's lack of action ultimately led to the country's partition.

12) Vikram discusses how different worldviews and clashes of civilizations collide when it comes to religions and how India is one of the few ancient traditions that still survives despite attempts at elimination of their centers of learning and universities. He notes that India's knowledge systems, philosophy, and traditions have been passed down through generations, which made them stronger. Sampath delves into the clash between two ideologies and views on God, creation, human beings, and almost everything else.

13) Vikram discusses the need to challenge exclusivist clubs that claim to be the gospel truth and the historical reality of caste-based operations which kept knowledge away from a large section of people in Indian society. He also talks about the need to correct historical mistakes and change the names of cities that celebrate barbarians who destroyed centers of learning. He argues that if mistakes of history are being corrected, there is nothing particularly wrong about it. Sampath suggests celebrating role models from diverse backgrounds instead of icons from a particular community.