Ranveer Allahbadia -Vikram Sood

1) Former intelligence officer Vikram Sood explains the importance of intelligence gathering in identifying an adversary's plans and intentions. He notes that intelligence can include factual information such as a country's military capabilities or political assessments such as the behavior of political candidates. Sood traces the history of India's intelligence agencies starting from the Intelligence Bureau to the creation of the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) in 1968. He credits R&AW's success during the 1971 war with Pakistan over Bangladesh to the leadership of its first chief, Mr. R.N. Kao.

2) Vikram discusses the different types of intelligence operations, such as hard intelligence which focuses on data about enemy equipment and moves, and soft intelligence which can involve documents, audio recordings, images, sourced information, and rely on spies. During his early days in R&AW, there were no smartphones or facts, so sources had to deliver information through letters or ciphers, and time constraints were a major issue. Topographical intelligence, which involves mapping out the land in a neighboring country, was also critical and used to involve sending a person to collect data piece by piece, but nowadays, Google Maps can provide a substantial amount of information.

3) Vikram discusses the importance of water as a potential security threat and the need for India to re-evaluate its water treaty with Pakistan. The current 70-30 equation in favor of Pakistan needs to be changed to 50-50, but changing the treaty is seen as an act of war. Sood also highlights that while intelligence agencies may use open sources such as Google Maps and social media, most of the information collected comes from these sources, and it is merely the art of putting that intelligence together that yields the quantum jump.

4) Sood describes a real spy movie as one that deals with actual facts and not just glamour. He mentions the example of a movie, "The Bridge of Spies," and explains that it portrays the lonely life of a spy, their cover stories, and the use of dead letter boxes for information exchange. He also talks about the motivation behind joining intelligence agencies, saying that some join to serve their country, while others come to see if it suits them. He then recounts how he was recruited in 1971 and explains that it was decided by the Indian government that the Intelligence agency should have talent from everywhere.

5) Vikram shares his vision of providing education and opportunities to women and older people in India. He also suggests actors such as Nawazuddin Siddiqui, Irfan Khan, and Pankaj Tripathi who could play the role of a spy. Sood recommends movies like "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" and "Bridge of Spies," which come closest to portraying the truth about espionage. He also shares his all-time favorite pair of practical and stylish light brown shoes.

6) Vikram discusses how to identify moles and the importance of catching them before they harm the organization. He explains that moles could be anyone in the system and that it takes good luck or a van act out of character to spot them. Sood also talks about the importance of an Indian internet and how the Western internet is another gift to themselves, allowing them to collect data and information about everything. He expresses concern that the human mind may stop thinking and leave everything to machines, leading to the danger of artificial intelligence exceeding human intelligence.

7) Vikram discusses the Western narrative around China and the potential for China's collapse. He notes that big countries don't just "die away" and emphasizes the resilience of both China and Russia. Sood also discusses his book "The Ultimate Goal", which explores how narratives are built by states and highlights the importance of having a positive national narrative to portray oneself as a powerful, fair, and sporting people. He gives an example of India's portrayal as a land of snake charmers, while the West portrays themselves as wealthy, democratic, and generous.

8) Vikram discusses the impact of media propaganda and conditioning on shaping people's perception. He gives a modern-day example of how constantly being exposed to someone's face on Instagram can create attraction and says that the same applies to political propaganda. Sood says that America's image has been tarnished in recent years due to its constant intervention in other countries under the pretext of eliminating evil dictators, and has been finding it difficult to maintain its superpower status. However, he still believes that America is a strong nation with valuable contributions to the world in terms of education and technology, but it needs to re-evaluate its approach and learn to coexist with others.

9) Vikram Sood discusses the idea of population control and how it may be necessary in order to feed everyone. He suggests that vasectomies could be one way to achieve this, while also acknowledging that controlling population growth could potentially involve limiting resources in other parts of the world.

10) Vikram explains that India is safer for a few reasons, including the fact that the government is trying to deliver on promises and has delivered for the common man. Access to money, banks, and subsidies make a difference to those who need it, such as women who have to collect twigs to light the fire. Additionally, Modi has reached out to the rest of the world, and relationships with West Asian nations have never been better. The Balakot attack after Pulwama was a message that if you attack India, there will be an equal response, which has made a difference in the way people think. Sood also notes that there would have been a reaction if Modi Ji had been Prime Minister during the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

11) Sood about how India has managed to increase its security in recent years. Sood says it's a combination of increased investment in intelligence agencies and the military, as well as improving security measures for the general public. The conversation shifts towards how cricket teams use data to plan out their strategy and how it can be applied to intelligence agencies. He notes that while there may be differences of opinion between intelligence agencies and the military, it all comes down to a joint effort. Lastly, Sood emphasizes the importance of having good friends, which is one of the best things you can have in life.