Rich Roll - Rainn Wilson

1) Rich praises the Rainn’s book for its underpinning of hope and optimism that provides a fresh perspective on spirituality and religion. Rainn expresses a desire to reinvigorate spiritual ideas for readers of all beliefs, to look at spirituality through new lenses and with an urgency for transformative action.

2) Rainn Wilson talks about his religion, the Baha'i Faith, which has around five or six million followers worldwide, making it the second most widespread religion after Christianity. Wilson left the faith during his 20s, but later returned to it after experiencing anxiety attacks and a mental health crisis. Hedescribes how he sought out spirituality out of necessity rather than virtue and how he emerged from his cocoon, pursued his dream of being a Bohemian downtown actor, and then searched for something deeper and more meaningful to fill the void in his life.

3) Rainn explains his struggle with addiction, anxiety, and depression while living in New York City despite seemingly living his dream. He embarks on a journey to investigate faith, spirituality, and religion out of necessity to avoid suicidal thoughts. As a Gen Xer, he initially distances himself from religion and spirituality due to cynicism and aproclivity towards irony. However, he ultimately finds himself returning to the very faith that was part of his upbringing, but on his own terms.

4) Rainn talks about the sense of not selling out among people in the current generation, where individuals are celebrated for creating their own brands. He also discusses his journey towards discovering the Baha'i faith and his exploration of various worldviews that led him to question his belief in God. He later found inspiration in the indigenous North American view of the Creator, which views God as a great mystery that is not necessarily confined to a bearded man in the clouds.

5) Rainn shares the idea that God is less of a "what" and more of a "how." He compares this to the internet, with Wi-Fi being the Holy Spirit and computers being our souls. He notes that this is a departure from the traditional monotheistic view of God as an all-powerful being that is separate from us. He also equates this idea of God to larger forces such as beauty and love which cannot be fully explained by neuroscience. He suggests that this idea of God can be transformative and can help us consider more deeply our place in the universe and solve existential problems.

6) Rainn discusses the different chapters of the guest's book, which include death, God, and consciousness, among others. He emphasizes the need for a spiritual revolution to create systems based on spiritually-based interactions rather than the worst qualities of humanity that currently drive current systems towards unsustainable outcomes. He argues that current Band-Aid solutions, such as campaign finance reform or healthcare reform, do not address the underlying dysfunctionality of the system, and a complete revamp is needed to prevent us from going off the edge of a cliff.

7) Rich discusses the unhealthy incentives of the media and social media and gives an example from the Baha'i faith of how to elect spiritually mature and selfless public servants to guide the community, without campaigning, money and yard signs. Rich and Rainn explore the idea that humans are their own worst enemies and that self-interest can devolve a system that has a responsibility to the collective. They also touch on the uniquely American perception of rugged individualism versus the responsibility to the collective. Roll introduces an analogy of Star Trek versus kung fu.

8) Rich and Rainn discuss how Star Trek serves as a metaphor for social issues that we continue to grapple with today. They mention episodes that tackled racial issues and discuss the importance of having an outward orientation to create a better world while seeking personal enlightenment. Rainn shares his experience in becoming a better person by working on his character defects, emphasizing the need for a spiritual revolution to help advance civilization.

9) Rainn discusses the impact of their show, The Office, on people's lives. Despite the show's initial intention to simply provide entertainment, it has become a source of comfort for people during difficult times, such as mental health crises or the COVID-19 pandemic. He attributes this to the universality of the characters and the relatability of the office setting. Interestingly, the show has also found an audience in younger generations who have never worked in an office but find the idea of it appealing. He ties this to a shift in priorities among Millennials and Gen Z who are now increasingly seeking jobs that allow them to make a difference in the world rather than solely seeking high pay or status.

10) Rainn discusses the rise of young people's elevated sense of responsibility and purpose as a possible inflection point for real social change. They also talk about the decline of religious traditions and the rise of individuals with huge followings on social media that are taking the place of local pastors or community figures as people we look to for guidance or inspiration. While there are demigods like Elon Musk and other materialistic violent figures like Andrew Tate, there are also influencers like Jay Shetty or Louis House who offer wisdom and inspiration.

11) Rainn discusses the importance of religion and spirituality in providing purpose, meaning, community, and a sense of the transcendent for people. While acknowledging the negative aspects of religion in the past, he suggests that we should not throw out the positives that religion has brought to humanity. Instead, we should take the best ideas from various religions and create a new religion that fosters grassroots community spiritual movements in a systematic and organized way. He cites the Baha'i faith as an example of a religion that offers a systematic approach to building these movements, focusing on diverse people gathering to pray together, being of service together, and fostering spiritual virtues among participants.

12) Rainn argues that it is necessary to create a new mythology that remembers humans as a cooperative species that have lived inpeace with the planet earth for most of their existence. However, he acknowledges that this is a big task, especially in societies like America,which promotes individualism and the pursuit of happiness. This requires a new narrative that incorporates a sense of collective responsibility, which hasbeen lost in contemporary American ideologies.

13) Rainn discusses the importance of fostering joy and hope instead of cynicism and pessimism, which can be harmful and prevent us from taking action to change the world. He shares a story about a theater teacher who taught him this lesson by telling him, "don't do it, don't give in to cynicism." He also mentions two books, "The Book of Hope" and "The Book of Joy," that explore the idea of what is sacred in the modern world and how that has changed over time.

14) Rich and Rainn talked about finding the sacred in our everyday lives. They discussed a spiritual journey that included prayer, meditation, Haiku writing, and cultural travelogue. Rich shared a story about a nine-day journey of prayer and meditation with a diverse group of Baha'is from different countries. He also referenced the works of Basho, a great medieval Japanese Haiku poet, who wrote about the connection between spirituality, nature, and travel.

15) Rainn discusses the concept of presence and how being present can bring about an elevated consciousness and a sacredness to everyday tasks. The idea of Oneness and unity is also explored, with the speakers reflecting on indigenous traditions that prioritize the interconnectedness of all things, such as art, nature, and spirituality.

16) Rainn discuss the trend of westerners seeking spiritual enlightenment through the use of psychoactive substances like ayahuasca. While acknowledging that these substances can have benefits in targeted therapeutic settings, they criticize the recreational and touristic use of them. They argue that this approach isn't truly transformative, and it is, in fact, a shortcut for Americans who want to have peak experiences with no real commitment to the hard daily work of spiritual transformation. They stress that true spiritual growth is a lifelong process that requires real work, and while these substances can be a tool for some, they aren't necessaryfor spiritual transformation.

17) Rainn discuss the importance of elevating consciousness and solving problems in a healthy way. They point out that the inability to communicate, be honest about emotions, and check the ego stems from masculine models of unhealth. They also discuss how people lack a language to talk about what's going on inside them, and folks need to learn how to communicate those feelings. Justin Baldoni's podcast, Man Enough, looks to challenge masculinity and aims to educate people about these emotions. However, some groups view challenges to masculinity as a threatening affront, and the organized pushback is disconcerting.

18) Rainn argues that spirituality is important because it is reality. He states that all human beings are spiritual beings experiencing life in a physical form. There is a spark of the divine in everyone, and this connection with the divine is the reality that should not be ignored. Spirituality can greatly improve mental health and wellbeing, leading to a better quality of life. He recommends trying it out as a cost-benefit analysis of putting a small amount of time every day into some kind of spiritual opening or practice has benefits that have been found time and time again.