Steven Bartlett - Jonathan Van Ness

1) Jonathan shares his experiences with bullying and abuse as a queer kid from a cisgender world. He notes that although there was widespread bullying, it reached a fever pitch post-sixth grade. However, he still had close friends and found joy and happiness in figure skating and gymnastics. He also talks about how some of the experienced emotions of grief, shame, and joy, can coexist without invalidating each other. Van Ness reveals that he is a sexual abuse survivor and thought often about kids going through worse situations growing up, although it was severe enough on its own.

2) Jonathan discusses the secrecy and shame surrounding sexual abuse, particularly in religious and rural communities, and the tendency to blame queer people for child abuse. He states that sexual abuse is often perpetrated by someone known to the victim, like a family member or a church leader, rather than a stranger. Van Ness also speaks about his normalization of therapy and how he always knew he wanted to do hair, despite pressure to pursue a different career. Lastly, he reflects on how the teachings of Eckhart Tolle helped him understand the role that his story and ego played in his life.

3) Jonathan talks about their struggles with addiction and trauma, which led them to seek different forms of healing. Van Ness discusses how their addiction to drugs began in their early twenties, shortly after dropping out of university. After experimenting with weed, they quickly became addicted to cocaine and other drugs. They eventually turned to sex work as a means to support their addiction. Van Ness reflects on how the trauma they experienced was something that they could never fully escape, and how they learned to manage it through different forms of therapy and healing. They also discuss the importance of harm reduction in managing addiction.

4) Jonathan and Steven discuss hitting rock bottom and needing to reach that point before getting support to overcome addiction. They share the idea that everyone's "rock bottom" looks different, and some people don't survive their bottoms. The conversation then shifts to sex addiction, which is not a recognized addiction in the DSM, and how difficult it is to have a conversation about it. Jonathan talks about struggling with sexual compulsivity, having disassociative behavior and losing control of his sexual behavior, and ultimately going to rehab for it. The two then discuss the impact of sexual compulsivity on one's life and relationships and the importance of understanding the origins of one's addiction.

5) Jonathan talks about the importance of understanding one's origin story and how it relates to healing from trauma. He shares that while understanding his origin story was helpful in processing and making connections, he was left with scarring and patterns that continued to repeat themselves. Through a journey of continually hurting himself and going back to therapy, Van Ness was able to heal from his traumas. He also discusses the prevalence of sexual compulsivity in queer communities and the importance of understanding the difference between a trauma response and a true desire.

6) Jonathan talks about the possibility of insecure functioning relationships turning into secure functioning ones through couples therapy and working on oneself. He also mentions that every relationship is unique, and there is no perfect formula for making relationships work. Van Ness moved to St. Louis when he was 25 to be closer to his stepdad and to leave behind his drug and sex addiction in LA. Unfortunately, his stepdad passed away shortly after, and it was a very self-destructive era for him. Van Ness sets a loving boundary and does not want to speak about this part of his life right now.

7) Jonathan discusses the importance of being one's authentic self, even in the face of disincentivizations or temptations to be someone else. He notes that being authentic is a spectrum and that external factors like socialization and community shape who we are. He believes that being vulnerable and having the courage to speak about what we are going through is a hallmark of authenticity. Van Ness also discusses how he caught himself trying to deflect when asked about his trauma and how he had to be honest with himself about his emotions.

8) Jonathan talks about the idea of authenticity being more than just being a quirky personality, but also about being open and true to oneself, even if it means setting boundaries or expressing negative emotions. As a public figure, he admits that there are times when he may not want to take selfies or be performative, but that doesn't mean he's not being authentic. He also discusses his recent personal challenges with grief and balancing his private life with his public persona, acknowledging that it's a difficult but necessary aspect of being in the public eye.

9) Jonathan expresses frustration about the transphobia present in society and how it's often tied to white supremacy and colonialism. He emphasizes that many people "aren't interrogating where they're getting their information" about trans people and how this can lead to dangerous attitudes and actions. Van Ness stresses the importance of understanding that transphobia is a systemic issue and that trans people make up only a small percentage of the population, yet they are disproportionately impacted by violence and rejection from society.

10) Jonathan explains how the binary idea of biological sex is not true, and how there are many people with intersex characteristics, including xxy chromosomes. He also dives deeper into intersex issues, explaining how many of them are forcefully made into someone who looks biologically female and undergo genital surgery when they are babies. When it comes to allyship, he urges people to move beyond thinking of it as doing someone a solid when it doesn't affect them, but rather to recognize how transphobia, homophobia, racism, and misogyny impact everyone.