Steven Bartlett - Nicola Kilner

1) Nicola Kilner talks about the course she took at Nottingham Trent University sponsored by top companies, which helped her learn skills important for her career. She believes that working in a big corporate, in an entrepreneurial role that suits the individual, is valuable for gaining experience and important skills. Nicola also explains her experience at Boots where she learned collaboration and relationship-building skills while working in a role where she hand-held entrepreneurs on how to work with large organizations like Boots and how to create a plan for their products.

2) Nicola talks about how the idea of Deciem came about and how they wanted to create an ecosystem of doing 10 things at once. With this viewpoint, they could build an incredible structure where everybody sits at the same table, generates ideas, and the organization knew that they could fail relatively cheaply and quickly, and start the next thing. However, in the later years, when The Ordinary became a huge success, the other brands got pushed aside. It is difficult to have multiple brands when one is driving a huge portion of the revenue, and it's hard to prioritize everything.

3) Nicola talks about her unique co-founder relationship with Brandon Truaxe and how it was complemented by their different personalities and skillsets. While Brandon was a genius in science and tech, passionate but also short-tempered and eccentric, Nicola was calm and the soothing factor in the relationship. Brandon's troubled upbringing, previous professional experiences and attachment issues also shaped his view on how startups should operate; he wanted to build a "family" at Deciem, where people belonged regardless of their backgrounds, skin colors, or beliefs. Nicola believes that startups can build relationships far deeper than what she experienced at corporate jobs and create a sense of dedication, mission, and community among their teams.

4) Kilner discusses what makes a successful company culture. They note that creating a deep sense of care for team members is not necessarily intentional and often comes about naturally as a result of enjoying what you're doing and having a sense of purpose. They also discuss the importance of having fun, being agile, and how this was a key part of the early success of Deciem and The Ordinary. They acknowledge that this kind of culture can result in a lack of balance, and there is now a greater awareness of mental health and burnout, but at the same time, a certain level of unbalance may be required in the early stages of a company.

5) Nicola speaks about the importance of being flexible and switching roles as needed in order to make a successful business. Kilner also shares her thoughts on work-life balance, explaining that balance is different for everyone and changes at different periods of life. She believes that "family culture" in a business is about belonging and creating a safe place for employees, but acknowledges the conflict between "being kind" and "being nice" and the necessity of sometimes having difficult conversations about performance.

6) Nicola discusses the harsh reality of running a business. When a company does not perform financially, tough decisions must be made, including the possibility of laying people off. However, Kilner believes in being kind to everyone on the team and making them feel safe and trusted, even when difficult decisions need to be made. She admits to feeling like the "least qualified CEO ever" and struggled with imposter syndrome.

7) Kilner reflects on her self-awareness and discusses the breakout success of The Ordinary, Decimal's skincare brand. Kilner explains that The Ordinary was launched with a frustration about the lack of transparency in the skincare industry, and the brand's concept was modeled after the transparency in the world of pharmacy. Kilner notes that the brand's popularity skyrocketed from the moment it was launched, with stocks selling out immediately. She attributes much of The Ordinary's success to its concept of transparency and authenticity, something that Kilner believes is essential in today's world.

8) Nicola recalls how Brandon's behavior started to change in 2018. She describes how he had experimented with magic mushrooms and his demeanor had become cold and disconnected from the team. He once asked her to meet him for coffee but said there was no need to tell each other a time. Nicola found it hard to deal with the sudden change in behavior. Despite these difficulties, she still recognized Brandon as a genius and visionary.

9) Nicola discusses how difficult it was to experience the abrupt change in the behavior of the brand's other co-founder, Brandon Truaxe. Nicola details a series of events that cause confusion and hurt, including inexplicably canceling brand partnerships and retailers and firing early team members seemingly without reason. Nicola believes that these anomalies were brought about by Truaxe's experimentation with drugs and extreme interests in psychedelics, which likely triggered a psychotic episode. Even worse, the incident led to Nicola's dismissal from the company.

10) Nicola shares the difficulty of dealing with the unraveling of Brandon and Deciem from early on. She was initially puzzled when Brandon's behavior changed, and he began acting irrationally, despite whatever agreements were in place. Nicola found it challenging to deal with this, and despite the stress she was under, she found solace in her husband, who helped her take a step back and focus on their relationship, possibly having a child. The tension in her personal and professional life escalated when she found out she was pregnant, and abusive emails were being sent, targeting everyone Brandon was firing.

11) Nicola discusses her former colleague Brandon, who passed away in January 2019. She reveals that Brandon hid his romantic partner from everyone due to fear of not being accepted, and he never felt he could be his true self. Nicola also discusses Brandon's difficult childhood and challenges with mental health, which eventually led to his drug use and the closure of Deciem. Despite efforts to help him, Brandon pushed away loved ones and surrounded himself with people who were not good for him. Eventually, the board had to remove him from the company after he announced the shutdown on Instagram.

12) Nicola talks about the difficult situation the company faced with Brandon Truaxe, the company’s founder. Truaxe was sometimes parked outside the office, causing chaos and creating a challenging environment for the team. Kilner, who was back in the UK, was saddened when she found out about the situation. After a while, they got a message that he had died, and she had to inform his close associates and the Estee Lauder Companies. Kilner had to go through the motions of informing everyone, knowing that everyone would know soon, trying to figure out a way to handle the situation.

13) The founder had passed away, and everyone felt the loss of a friend and family member. Nicola Kilner, one of the co-CEOs, revealed that the team had a year of messaging each other about how to handle the situation and get through it. The founder fell off a balcony and died in an apparent drug abuse and mental health cycle. Nicola mentioned feelings of helplessness and the desire to know if anything could have been done differently. Despite the love she had for him, Nicola has not had time to process what happened fully, as there were business, practicalities, and personal life responsibilities she had to take care of, and it needs to be the right time to sit down with a psychologist to go through everything that happened.

15) Nicola emphasizes the importance of having a good impact on the world while making incredible products. She believes that transparency and awareness in the skincare industry have increased, making it a better place. She also mentions that having a diverse workforce with different viewpoints can drive innovation and creativity. Kilner advises startup founders to prioritize product quality for success and focus on making people feel supported, safe, trusted, and belonging.

16) Nicola discusses her family's experience with addiction and how it relates to mental health. Kilner shares the story of her father's struggles with alcoholism and his eventual death, as well as the parallels she sees with her cousin's addiction and death. She discusses the difficulty in understanding addiction as a disease and feeling helpless in the face of it. Kilner describes her own coping mechanisms, such as keeping busy, but acknowledges the importance of seeking support in dealing with grief and loss.