Tim Ferriss - David Maisel

1) David and Tim talk about what made Michael Ovitz an effective power broker in Hollywood. Maisel says that Ovitz had a tenacity, focus, and work ethic that wouldn't let anything but his success happen, an ability to amass and perceive leverage, and an amazing use of PR to create a mythical image of himself. Maisel also acknowledges that he was naive when he first arrived in Hollywood and didn't know how the town worked until he started working for Ovitz.

2) David recalls having a strong connection with Eisner during their interview, but not hearing back from him for a while and receiving other job offers from the NBA, Marvel, and McKinsey. He ultimately accepted a job offer from McKinsey, but it wasn't long before he received a call from Eisner's team asking if it was too late for him to join them. Maisel accepted the offer and left McKinsey after just one week. He attributes his success to good timing and being in the right place at the right time.

3) David speaks about his decision to leave consulting and pursue a career in entertainment. Maisel shares that the passing of his older sister was the catalyst for him to pursue his creative passions and take risks rather than sticking to a safe and stable career path. Maisel also speaks about his early love of comic books and how his encyclopedic knowledge and ability to bring relevant characters into the mainstream led to his success in producing mega cultural movies like the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

4) David discusses the lessons he learned from Michael Ovitz during his time at CAA. One of the lessons he learned was how to work with creatives, which Michael taught him by putting him in front of them and reminding him that they are the customers. He also learned from Michael's approach to technology and its intersection with the entertainment industry, as well as the importance of finding one's own personal style and approach. Maisel also goes on to discuss the importance of knowing the business fundamentals, managing the creative process, and having street smarts to understand the Hollywood scene, citing examples from his own experiences.

5) David discusses the importance of staying up-to-date on Hollywood news and history, even without a mentor, to keep up with the latest trends and opportunities. Tim Ferriss adds that understanding business fundamentals is also crucial for capitalizing on asymmetric upside opportunities. They then delve into the history of Marvel's entry into the picture, including Michael Ovitz declining the president job at Universal, being a critical event that led to Maisel joining Disney's corporate development and seeing the inner workings of a studio from a strategic planning perspective.

6) David reveals that he recommended to Michael Eisner that Disney buy Marvel back in 1996-1997, when it was worth no more than $100 million, but was laughed out of the room. Maisel believed Marvel would be a good acquisition due to the company's appeal to a demographic that was not being targeted by Disney at the time, which was boys between the ages of 12 and having children of their own. Eisner ended up leaving Disney in 1997-1998, and Maisel later sold Marvel to Disney for $4 billion, giving him his first creative project and winning a Tony Award for best musical.

7) David talks about his experience working for Ari Emanuel and Patrick Whitesell at Endeavor, where he had his first real payday. Maisel explains that he knew he never wanted to be an agent long-term and, in 2003, he sat down for a weekend and began working on what would become Marvel Studios. Maisel also shares his personal passion for storytelling and how it led him to become one of the larger investors in a theater production, Fosse, which tells the story of Bob Fosse, a complicated and talented choreographer known for his sensuality in dance.

8) David discusses his experience producing the Broadway show "Fosse," which won a Tony Award for Best Musical. He emphasizes that he is not afraid to use both creative and business perspectives when making decisions, which he believes is crucial in entertainment. Maisel explains that he micromanaged all the relevant major creative and business decisions to make the show a success. With Fosse and other projects, Maisel aims to envision and see something that others haven't seen before, and he turns the necessary dials creatively and financially to get things done.

9) David explains the traditional Hollywood deal structure in which IP holders, like Marvel, would license their properties to studios. This meant that Marvel would only receive a portion of the profits while the studio held creative control over the film and marketing. Maisel, as an investor, saw this as a flawed model to grow enterprise value and became interested in Marvel's vast universe of characters. He developed the idea for the Universe, which required all movies after the first one to be a sequel or quasi-sequel, with characters appearing in multiple films.

10) David explains how he was able to raise the financing for Marvel without risk. He asked the board to give him six months to not license any more movies so that he could put together something that somebody would finance as a slate. By owning their own studio, they would get the full financial upside, and they would decide on greenlight when the movies get made. They would also keep all the ancillaries like toys and video games. Despite not having any risk, Merrill Lynch helped structure it as pure debt, with a very low-interest rate, and the only collateral were the film rights to 10 Marvel characters of which they could make for the movies. In the worst-case scenario, it only got collected if they lost money on those first four movies.

11) David discusses the hurdles that came with financing and making Marvel's cinematic universe a reality. He explains that even though the board ultimately supported the idea, it was a risky deal at the time and relied heavily on riskless capital. Maisel was determined to keep Marvel's upside, even if it meant facing challenges with Merrill Lynch, who tried to renegotiate the deal after it had already closed. He also highlights how Marvel's success was a result of a relay race with those before him, including Avi Arad and Ike Perlmutter, who handled the licensing deals for characters like X-Men and Spider-Man.

12) David explains the incentives behind the deal, which included a three percent success fee for Merrill Lynch and the need for everyone involved to make the deal happen. He also shares that most of the debt was insured, becoming AAA debt, which made it easier for the company to sell it to pensions and individual investors. As a result, Merrill took the risk and sold most of it to others pretty immediately, with their success fee secured as soon as the money was guaranteed. Another critical element of the deal was securing a distribution agreement, but Marvel Studios faced obstacles as nobody wanted to distribute their movies because they were not yet the major brand they are today. Eventually, they secured their first partner, Paramount.

13) David explains that when they closed their financing, they did not have Iron Man as one of their top choices. They had listed ten characters, including Captain America and Thor, but had an internal disagreement about whether Thor was practical given the cost of Asgard. They even considered making a Hulk movie with Universal, but eventually zeroed in on Iron Man, which both Kevin Feige and Avi Arad were excited about, especially because of the character of Tony Stark. Maisel also notes that in 2006, he was promoted to vice chairman of the studio, while Feige was promoted to president of production.

14) David explains how they hired director Jon Favreau and actor Robert Downey Jr. for the first Iron Man movie, which celebrated its 15th anniversary recently. Despite initial concerns over Downey's history with drug abuse and lack of box office success, Maisel and other decision-makers agreed to cast him for the role of Tony Stark. Maisel also discusses the challenges they faced in getting the film off the ground, which involved acquiring the rights back to Iron Man and settling internal politics at Marvel, as well as convincing the board and getting financing and a distribution deal in place. Moreover, he explains how they abandoned the traditional Hollywood model by eliminating the unnecessary layer of management in the form of studio executives.

15) David talks about the making of the first Iron Man film and how it came together smoothly with the help of director Jon Favreau and actor Gwyneth Paltrow. Maisel also mentions that the marketing and choosing of a release date were challenges, but they were able to get the release date they wanted because no one else wanted it. Maisel also talks about a low-budget Iron Man animated film that was made in 2004 as a way to prove to the board that they could produce something, which ended up being successful. Ferriss points out how Maisel blended financial structuring and co-CEO role at Marvel with the creative side effectively in making these successful Marvel films.

16) Maisel explains that he maintained a quiet PR approach because he didn't want to appear egotistic and was focused on new challenges. He also shares that being quiet led to some confusion, with his story being rewritten and even omitted from articles. However, he has realized that it’s important to be part of the narrative if he cares about something, and that Marvel’s success has allowed him to share the shine with others.

17) David discusses the difficult road Marvel Studios faced in bringing the Iron Man movie to the big screen. While the team was excited about the movie's potential, the stock price had been plummeting for four and a half years by the time it was released in 2008. Despite promotional efforts via interviews with various publications, no one seemed to have any confidence in the movie's ability to succeed. Even Maisel's own company projected that the film would only break even, and would only incentivize him and Kevin Feige with a meager bonus if this was achieved.

18) David recalls the night he received the news that Marvel's "Iron Man" had earned $100 million at the box office, and how it changed everything for him and the company. He discusses how he didn't truly celebrate until later, where he organized a dinner with the film's director Jon Favreau, actor Robert Downey Jr., and Marvel's Kevin Feige to commemorate the success. During the dinner, Maisel promised to greenlight "Iron Man 2" with the same cast and crew, and Marvel pulled it off even though it was a quick turnaround. The section also includes a story about how Natalie Portman was cast in "Thor," and how random circumstances led to her being introduced to Maisel.

19) Maisel was hoping to sell the company to Disney but had prepared himself for the possibility of being fired or ordered to continue working on current projects. However, Perlmutter surprised Maisel by not only agreeing to a meeting but also being open-minded and considering the sale as an option. Maisel eventually persuaded Perlmutter to consider the sale but only after he had made a convincing case for it. Additionally, Maisel talks about how billionaire Ron Burkle became his mentor and close friend and their intersection with the Marvel story.

20) David discusses the process of selling Marvel to Disney and specifically how he wanted Marvel to remain a separate entity within Disney to maintain its culture. He also wanted to step aside and introduced Kevin Feige to Bob Iger as his replacement, which allowed him to pursue other ventures outside of Marvel. Maisel talks about the successful acquisition with Disney, which he sold for $4 billion, 3.8 billion more than the price when he joined. He also explains how Marvel Studios was a startup within the parent company Marvel and they had to manage their own money and do their own deals. Lastly, Tim Ferriss teases Maisel's future conversation with him about his adventures outside of Marvel and Disney and how to build a universe of characters.

21) David discusses his love for the sci-fi novel Stranger In A Strange Land by Robert Heinlein and his desire to make it into a live-action movie. He also discusses the challenges of launching the next cinematic universe in the current market and how it will likely start with new technologies and ways of storytelling. Maisel believes that a successful universe must be differentiated from Marvel, have great meaning, and be introduced in a more visual and primal way to catch people's attention. He cites James Cameron's Avatar as a legacy property with history that could be discovered together, making it a perfect combination for a new mythology.